Thank you so much, turnerc, for your moving story. I can relate very much to the pain of estrangement from family. But I agree entirely that you should have no regrets. I believe you did the best thing, even though some might rush to judgment about your having left your husband. From your description of events, it sounds to me like your first marriage was too strongly linked to JWs. I applaud your decision and the outcome.
Chad M
JoinedPosts by Chad M
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58
Newbies - Give us your stories....
by AK - Jeff inmost of old posters have hashed and re-hashed our backgrounds, history, and method of discovering the 'truth about the truth'.. your turn newbies!.
those who are lurking without the benefit of registration - it only takes a minute, and you too can give us your stories!.
those registered lurkers - what holds you back?
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58
Newbies - Give us your stories....
by AK - Jeff inmost of old posters have hashed and re-hashed our backgrounds, history, and method of discovering the 'truth about the truth'.. your turn newbies!.
those who are lurking without the benefit of registration - it only takes a minute, and you too can give us your stories!.
those registered lurkers - what holds you back?
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Chad M
When I was in, I was really in. I believed it all, with all of my heart. Like a lot of JWs, I married young. I'd been married for almost two years when I strayed a bit, due to an odd set of work-related circumstances, and got intimate with another woman.
My wife was quite pregnant at the time, and there was practically no sex between us, so I, like any healthy, handsome, red-blooded, male in his early 20s, was particularly vulnerable (which is to say "horny") to the advances of an attractive young woman.
No, I did not do "the bad thing" with her. I fondled her privates and she fondled mine and, knowing where we were heading and not wanting to go there, I somehow mustered the strength to extricate myself from the situation just in time. So, there was kissing and petting and fondling, but there was no penetration or copulation of any kind, nor was there any orgasm.
Nevertheless, I felt guilty about what I had done. I wrestled with the guilt for a few months and finally couldn't take it anymore. I confessed to my wife, and then, good little well-indoctrinated JW that I was, met with the elders and confessed to them, as well.
It was an acutely uncomfortable meeting, and there were a lot of questions. One of the elders actually went so far as to ask whether or not I had inserted my finger into the woman's vagina. Huh? How bizarre is that?
Anyway, just when it looked like the meeting was about to be wrapped up, questions about sexual practices between my wife and I were raised, specifically about oral and anal sex. We'd never engaged in anal sex, nor wanted to, but we had on a few occasions engaged in oral sex, mostly before the landmark Questions From Readers of December 15, 1972.
At this point, I need to explain some background for the benefit of younger readers who might be unfamiliar with WTS's evolution of thought on this matter. As far as I know, the first time the question arose of allowable sexual activities between spouses, it was the Questions From Readers of December 15, 1969.
In that ruling, the WTS gave what I think most people would regard as a sensible answer based on scripture. In a nutshell, with all of the usual and predictable caveats, they left it up to the individual conscience of husband and wife, saying, "However, beyond the above observations about conjugal acts we cannot go. With love, respect and unselfishness, marriage mates themselves must decide what they will do."
But alas, three years later, the WTS flipflopped on the matter and, with the judicious use of some genuinely creative scripture-twisting, managed to redefine fornication and adultery to include "immoral use of the genital organs in some form of intercourse." They extended the "unnatural sex" from the biblical context of homosexuality to apply to oral and anal sex between spouses. The Questions From Readers of December 15, 1972 gave married JWs the okay for a divorce if the other spouse was into "unnatural sex," and obviously, made "unnatural sex" a disfellowshipping offense, and they had the gall to conclude this gem saying, "This clearly marks a correction in the view expressed on previous occasions in the columns of this magazine, but faithful adherence to what the Scriptures actually say requires it."
They reinforced this position in the Questions From Readers of Febrary 15, 1976, saying, "Unnatural practices in connection with sex in marriage, such as oral and anal copulation, have caused some of God's people to become impure in his eyes. But The Watchtower kept above this morass of filth by alerting married couples to God's thinking on the matter." Well, where would we be without that?
Anyway, now that you have the background, let's get back to our story. So, there I was, facing the elders with my wife at my side, and admitting that we had engaged in oral sex, both before it became a disfellowshipping offense, as well as after. They grilled me hard about my attitude toward oral sex. And the truth finally came out, i.e., that my personal opinion was that the WTS had it right in 1969 and got it wrong in 1972.
Honest and sincere bloke that I am, I guess I was finding it very difficult to be truly remorseful and repentant about something that I did not honestly and sincerely believe to be wrong. I knew the Bible well enough to know that their 1972 twist was just plain wrong. And I couldn't fake it, even though I had been mostly obedient to it. One of the elders told me that I was very conceited and had an overblown opinion of own intelligence.
They decided to disfellowship me. It rocked my world. It was the most horrible feeling I'd ever had. I felt like the lowest of the low. I had no friends outside of the organization. And it came at a very bad time in my life, when I was a new father and was unemployed and struggling financially. I tried to get reinstated six months later, but they found some excuse to deny me that. I guess they needed to see me doing more groveling.
I was very discouraged by that, and stopped going to meetings at that point. My wife, for a set of reasons mostly separate from my ordeal, began having her own doubts about the WTS, and she stopped going to the meetings, too. We moved to a different city, and I no longer had any contact with any JWs. But, for some reason, I was afraid to be without the Watchtower and Awake, so I continued my subscriptions for some years, out of fear. That is in spite of the fact that I never read them. I would open the brown wrapper and unfold the magazine and place it in the stack of the other unread magazines.
Like most JWs who "fall away," I languished in limbo for a long while, and tried to avoid thinking about God and religion as much as possible. It was just too painful and disturbing. I also started attending college while working part-time, so I was keeping pretty busy.
One night I had trouble sleeping, and I started thinking about how I was disfellowshipped and the injustice of it and feeling with certainty that I did not deserve to be disfellowshipped. I decided to attack my big stack of unread Watchtowers and see if perhaps any "new light" had come out. I went through them one by one and, sure enough, there was "new light." (Otherwise known as damage control.)
It was the Questions From Readers of February 15, 1978. It was one of those very rare instances when the WTS actually admitted that it had used scriptures out of context and that it was mistaken. It went like this:
Question: "Does the Bible set forth any specific definitions as to what is moral or immoral as regards the sexual relationship between husband and wife? Is it the responsibility of congregational elders to endeavor to exercise control among congregation members in these intimate marital matters?"
"...the conclusion was reached that those engaging in such sex practices were subject to disfellowshiping if unrepentant. The view was taken that it was within the authority of congregational elders to investigate and act in a judicial capacity regarding such practices in the conjugal relationship."
"A careful further weighing of this matter, however, convinces us that, in view of the absence of clear Scriptural instruction, these are matters for which the married couple themselves must bear the responsibility before God and that these marital intimacies do not come within the province of the congregational elders to attempt to control nor to take disfellowshipping action with such matter as the sole basis."
So, I was disfellowshipped for an offense that was later determined not to be an offense. At first, I felt vindicated and joyful. After thinking about it longer, I began to feel more anger and resentment. They cut me off from my friends and family and my whole world and made me suffer. And they were wrong. And now they know that they were wrong. And I was right. Those elders are still around. They've never tried to contact me and reconcile this.
To me, this was proof enough that this organization could not possibly be "The Truth." I've been tempted at different times to contact them and request that they acknowledge the error. I think they should read a letter to the congregation saying that I was disfellowshipped in error. I've even toyed with the idea of bringing a lawsuit against them.
But then I think, what's the point? Those elders who wrongfully disfellowshipped me actually did me a huge favor. Without them, it would have been far more difficult for me to have learned the truth about "The Truth."
Those bastards only have power of you when you give them power over you. I'm not giving them power over me ever again. To hell with them. -
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Rollerdave returns to the KH!
by RollerDave inwell folks, it had to happen, i returned to the kingdom hall.. or at least to its parking lot.. but not to worry my little jwd'ers, my return was in true rollerstyle!.
i had dropped off my mom a few days previous when she made some remarks that steamed me, i had felt she was talking through her teeth, but i now know i could only have been half right.. she calls and rambles a while, then directs me to keep her teeth safe.
after i got the explanation for this cryptic remark from her i go and investigate..... there, on my bathroom counter, next to the tushie-cleanliness paraphernalia, is an unexplained white plastic container which contained my mother's lower plate.. smelled 'minty.'.
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Chad M
That's too cool, Rollerdave! I wish I could have seen it.
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My Husband is Lost to THEM
by Mrs. Witness ini need some support, some suggestions, and perhaps a gut-check.
my husband was baptized in march.
he was raised from the time he was about 7 until his mom kicked him out at 15 (wasn't she loving?
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Chad M
My hat is off to garybuss for a very wise and insightful observation.
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Name the 'Finest Hypocrites' you know.
by AK - Jeff ini knew of an elder who ran a janitorial business for decades here [surprize] - his primary employees were his kids, ranging in age from 3 or 4 to teenager at various times.
he would bring in the whole family, they would spread out and empty bags, vacuum, and dust.
in a flash they are out and off to the book study or whatever.. he was able to 'witness wipe' several offices after 5 o'clock and before the 7 o'clock meeting times.
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Chad M
The finest hypocrite I ever knew was an elder who was relentless in his monitoring of everyone in the congregation. He was constantly and aggressively offering unsolicited advice, criticism, admonishment, counsel, and correction to everyone – even other elders – about even the slightest little things.
His wife attended the meetings rarely, if it all, and never went out it in service. The ongoing explanation for this was some mysterious non-specific illness, which did not appear to impair her in any way except for JW activities.
His son and daughter were remarkably well mannered, and were paraded as shinning little models of perfect behavior. That was when they were young. Once they got into their teens, the son and daughter got into sex, drugs, and rock’n’roll with a vengeance. They turned out far worse than the vast majority of so-called “worldly” kids.
Somehow I suspect that this case was not unique among JW elders. -
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My Husband is Lost to THEM
by Mrs. Witness ini need some support, some suggestions, and perhaps a gut-check.
my husband was baptized in march.
he was raised from the time he was about 7 until his mom kicked him out at 15 (wasn't she loving?
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Chad M
Mrs. Witness, you have my sympathy. When my mother became a JW, my father wanted no part of it. It put distance between them and four years later they divorced. What makes this a tough situation is that your husband has been conditioned to avoid the people who most could help him break free. A shrink or a marriage counselor could help, for starters, but he's likely to resist that. I hope you can persuade him. Peace.
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Depressed witness going door to door
by I quit! inthis morning i saw a witness mother and her son heading out into service.
from the area they were in i think they were going to be doing some street corner work.
i was stopped at a light when they walked in front of my car.
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Chad M
I intended my last post to be formatted differently, so that the quote from another post would stand out as distinct from my words. It didn't work.
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52
Depressed witness going door to door
by I quit! inthis morning i saw a witness mother and her son heading out into service.
from the area they were in i think they were going to be doing some street corner work.
i was stopped at a light when they walked in front of my car.
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Chad M
Thanks to each of you for the welcomes. I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate this site and, so far, it often seems counter-intuitive. I guess by what you and 38 years said 10 is about the age they start forcing you to knock on doors if you aren't already doing it willingly. I don't think that's the case. In my case, it just happens that I was 10 when my mom became a JW. Yeah, so there I was on Saturday mornings wearing a tie and carrying a bookbag while others kids were out playing. It wasn't long before my most dreaded fear was realized: I knocked on a door that was answered by a kid I knew from school. Then I became a laughing stock. My mom told me that people laughed at Noah when he was building the ark, but he had the last laugh. So that was my consolation, to tell myself that I'd be laughing at those rotten kids when they were destroyed at Armageddon. (This was back in the days when we were taught that Armageddon could come at any time, but definitely no later than 1975.) Let's face it, going door-to-door has almost nothing to do with preaching the gospel. It's a very ineffective way of spreading the message. If the WTS really wanted to spread the message to as many people as possible, they would be using mass media. They're smart enough to know how that works. If you analyze the requirement of going to D2D, or standing on the street displaying the magazines, you will probably come to the same conclusion that I came to: The primary purpose of this activity is to reinforce the JW mindset. The strongest component of the JW regimen is mind control, and it requires constant reinforcement. You have to go to all those meetings and you have to go out in service, and you have to do it every week. If you stop, you will begin to "fall away." Isn't that strange?
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Depressed witness going door to door
by I quit! inthis morning i saw a witness mother and her son heading out into service.
from the area they were in i think they were going to be doing some street corner work.
i was stopped at a light when they walked in front of my car.
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Chad M
Greetings. I'm new here and this is my first post. I had to start going door to door when I was about 10. What a drag.